Even More Pro Drums

[jlestudios]

The pro drum mode needs to be a little closer to the rockband style just so its easier to see which notes are cymbals rather than just a smaller note.
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Ok so heres the deal. The battle between which drum set up is better GH or rockband has gone on for too long. Phase Shift has made the ability for drummers to choose. I think we need to make the pro mode for guitar hero version also. I know what you are thinking the fact that GH charts always have the yellow and orange and cymbals and the blue and green on drums. But why do we have to go with this standard do you know how perfect of a setup you can have with 5 lane pro. let me show you. (Picture shown on next post)


With the way Phase Shift is being different than Fofix and better in many many ways, and the fact that charters are charting a different standard with the 5 lane drums we should really look at the possibility of adding pro drums to 5 lanes and not restrict ourselves to using the GH methodology.

Lastly if this is implemented it would require one more favor from the great minds behind EOF making it possible to toggle orange notes as cymbals or just defaulting it to a cymbal.

Let me know what you guys think. I beleive it could be revolutionary for drummers.

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[jlestudios]

Here is the picture of a great 5 lane setup. Notice how any fill would be possible and no more having to fly all the way over to hit the green crash like rockband charts require you too. Please know Im not trying to start a war but I will chart my drum charts like this because as a drummer who has been playing for many many years and voted the 2nd best in all of Utah my opinion shows a little credibilty to be considered.

Attachments:

[italianstal1ion]

I mean not to knock on your credentials, but how many people live in Utah really? Were you ranked number 2 in controller design? (I kid, I kid)

To my understanding, you are basically saying that Phase Shift should use 5 lanes, like Guitar Hero, but use all 4 lanes (excluding snare lane) for toms and cymbals - similar to the rock band pro drum style, but with 5 lanes instead of four. And then, you want Phase Shift to use the RB Pro Drums style of notation, meaning that each lane uses a different symbol to differentiate between tom/cymbal instead of using separate lanes for both? You just want to add an extra lane to RB Pro drums is what you're saying?

The "new setup" looks okay for converting GH 5 lane charts I suppose. The yellow tom wouldn't be used and would be a little confusing though, small issue. Also, blue is often used for ride cymbal, which is (almost) always on the right side of the set (or on the left if you're lefthanded, in which case the entire image flips). So the orange cymbal would have to trade places with the blue one for that to work correctly.

5 lane pro would also have to be supported by an editor (EOF likely, raynebc is great at taking requests). It would be nice to have a standard across the board for pro drums, instead of requiring the 5 or 7 lane option. Having more drums to hit is the one advantage I see, as long as it doesn't get too complex.

Also, I believe David has already spoken against the RB Pro notation (though I kind of like it, keeps the lane number down). It would be easier to keep all the lanes in order if there were only 5 instead of 9 with this proposal.

Also, have you considered DTXMania?

That is essentially your setup with the added bonus of open/closed hi-hat differentiation (something that would be really nice to have supported by game and editor someday).
It's got 3 crash/ride cymbals (2 are meshed into one lane on the very right), and one lane for open/closed hi-hat. Then there is the 4 lanes for snare and 3 toms, and the bass pedal lane. DTXMania I believe is the best game for drum playing (wouldn't call it simulation yet). So if you're really itching for this kind of feature, you should use it for a while. There is a good selection of songs for it.

[jlestudios]

Jun 30, 2011 6:32:33 GMT italianstal1ion said:

I mean not to knock on your credentials, but how many people live in Utah really? Were you ranked number 2 in controller design? (I kid, I kid)

To my understanding, you are basically saying that Phase Shift should use 5 lanes, like Guitar Hero, but use all 4 lanes (excluding snare lane) for toms and cymbals - similar to the rock band pro drum style, but with 5 lanes instead of four. And then, you want Phase Shift to use the RB Pro Drums style of notation, meaning that each lane uses a different symbol to differentiate between tom/cymbal instead of using separate lanes for both? You just want to add an extra lane to RB Pro drums is what you're saying?

The "new setup" looks okay for converting GH 5 lane charts I suppose. The yellow tom wouldn't be used and would be a little confusing though, small issue. Also, blue is often used for ride cymbal, which is (almost) always on the right side of the set (or on the left if you're lefthanded, in which case the entire image flips). So the orange cymbal would have to trade places with the blue one for that to work correctly.

5 lane pro would also have to be supported by an editor (EOF likely, raynebc is great at taking requests). It would be nice to have a standard across the board for pro drums, instead of requiring the 5 or 7 lane option. Having more drums to hit is the one advantage I see, as long as it doesn't get too complex.

Also, I believe David has already spoken against the RB Pro notation (though I kind of like it, keeps the lane number down). It would be easier to keep all the lanes in order if there were only 5 instead of 9 with this proposal.

Also, have you considered DTXMania?

That is essentially your setup with the added bonus of open/closed hi-hat differentiation (something that would be really nice to have supported by game and editor someday).
It's got 3 crash/ride cymbals (2 are meshed into one lane on the very right), and one lane for open/closed hi-hat. Then there is the 4 lanes for snare and 3 toms, and the bass pedal lane. DTXMania I believe is the best game for drum playing (wouldn't call it simulation yet). So if you're really itching for this kind of feature, you should use it for a while. There is a good selection of songs for it.

Quite honestly the beginning of your post made me laugh. Funny story behind that, the only drummer that beat me was the current drummer to Good Charlotte (He is from Utah and was at this competition)

I am not one of the best in the world but I do know what Im doing. Anyway nuff about that.

You hit the nail right on the head with what Im looking for RB pro drums layout with an added orange lane.

However I think it is kind of necessary to clarify a couple of things to the "new layout" The rectangular shapes are cymbals and the circles are the drums. In this setup here is a breakdown of how the pads should be used and why.

*Red-Snare (nothing else)

*Yellow-Hi Hat and first tom (The differentiation of what is a cymbal and what is a drum would make it clear what is to be played.) Too many charts make you play the yellow pad as a secondary cymbal this would not be necessary with the 5 lanes.

*Blue-Second Tom and FIRST crash. RB charts have always charted the ride cymbal on blue. The reason for this is due to Green always being used for the crash. With the yellow, red and green allready reserved for usual instances this left just the blue pad. I have always and will always chart the blue as the crash for any 4 lane charts because the ride cymbal is in 1 of 2 spots usually. the first spot is right after the second tom on a 4 piece set making the blue pad accurate to setup for rockband-However on a 3 tom setup (5 Piece) which is what the concept of 3 toms goes for. The 2nd place is the ride cymbal almost always right by the floor tom this would make it ideal to be charted on the green pad with the 2 notes showing what and what is not a drum. so the Blue is the first crash because as you play a beat with hi hat, kick and snare and you need to throw in a crash you should not need to reach all the way over to the green (and most drummers will not set up their kit to reach all the way over they usually have 2 crashes like in the new setup.)
OK just about done with blue. It is the first crash and the 2nd tom.

Green-Floor Tom and Ride Cymbal/Crash As explained above to justify the placement and cymbal selection of this pad this is ideal for a 5 piece drum set layout.

Orange-2nd Crash (Nothing Else) just the 2nd crash, this is the crash that you will be using during those heavy chorus's or breakdowns. It is never used as a tom and always as a cymbal. This cymbal makes the 3 tom fills more accurate. RB charts when using 3 tom fills would still have you crash on the green so for a 16th note fill you would hit the yellow 4 times, the blue 4 times and the green pad 5 times, the 5th hit being the crash. This of course is fixed with the pro drums feature but the green really is not a good place for the crash the orange and blue for the setup provide you with the correct area for your crashes and make all fills on a 5 piece more possible and natural.

As you can see I am very very passionate about this and whether it is implemented or not i will chart my drums this way and hope that it eventually catches on because it really is more accurate and lives up to the pro drums mentality.

Lastly I am not very interested in DTX mania, I have researched it but I enjoy playing the guitar parts on Phase Shift or FoFix too and would like to stick with 1 game. Plus I am not a huge fan of the DTX mania gameplay layout.

Thanks for the reply, feedback and input.

[knapman [FD]]

we are going the DTXMania route, 1:1 charting offers complete flexibility and accuracy, yes its harder to visually take in but its supposed to be

the only thing potentially to look into is lane shifting for midi kits, if your kit is in a specific layout i guess theres no reason lanes can't be swapped around to reflect your configuration better

thanks for sharing the idea but its not what we are looking for in this project as we just want a single proper real mode that is accurate as possible, this like the rb3 method is just a step backwards from that goal

[jlestudios]

Understandable. I dont want anybody to take a step in the wrong direction. I only showed my layout idea to show what is possible as far as setup. I never wanted to imply that I wanted to change the layout of the game just the cymbal notes. Phase Shift has allready added the functionality of cymbal notes for 4 lanes the lane format would NOT change for 5 or 4 lane I just think we should make the cymbal notes more noticeable I think its very hard to tell what is a cymbal in phase shift when playing. After this feature is implemented I would think we should have the same cymbal notes for the 5 lane in the same fashion. Again the layout would not change just the cymbal notes (not frets.)

[knapman [FD]]

i am looking into adjusting the cymbal notes to make them stand out more for both 7 and 5 lane modes

[jlestudios]

Jun 30, 2011 19:51:15 GMT knapman [FD] said:

i am looking into adjusting the cymbal notes to make them stand out more for both 7 and 5 lane modes

So kewl So very very kewl. this really would be awesome. I wish I could help in some way but I dont know a ton about programming. I am familiar with how to write themes and have written a few unpublished ones for FoFix.
I am so so excited about this. And I would presume that EOF will have another update to make the orange notes marked as cymbals.

Thanks for the reply Phase Shift really is the best game out there.

[raynebc]

If Phase Shift has the ability to have the fifth drum pad be a tom or a cymbal (ie. an orange tom phrase marker), I'll have no problem adding that to EOF.

[knapman [FD]]

this should work without any changes required

[jlestudios]

Jul 1, 2011 7:39:33 GMT knapman [FD] said:

this should work without any changes required

I hate to keep this subject going since it appears that it is resolved but I just wanted to clarify that the 5 lane mode will have the possibility of drum/cymbal notes for the yellow, blue, orange, and green lanes. Hopefully not just the yellow and orange which is what I fear.

[jlestudios]

Jul 1, 2011 5:59:22 GMT raynebc said:

If Phase Shift has the ability to have the fifth drum pad be a tom or a cymbal (ie. an orange tom phrase marker), I'll have no problem adding that to EOF.

I cant tell you how much I appreciate your willingness to accomodate everyones requests. It truly is inspiring to see.

[knapman [FD]]

yellow and orange notes will look different that is all, if you want to play the real mode on your gh kit your going to have to add 2 more pads to it

i only have a gh kit at the moment with a custom 2 pad addon, waiting for the rb3 kit price to drop

[raynebc]

Alright, if/when this gets implemented, let me know what the orange tom marker is. I haven't double checked to ensure that note 113 is available, but it would be a logical choice.

[knapman [FD]]

lol just to be clear as this thread generally seems to be getting a bit of a muddle the 5 lane mode isn't changing, just the note models linked with the cymbal lanes may change, this doesn't effect gameplay or charting in any way

the only reason to specify cymbals and toms on a rb kit is because you have seperate physical pads for them, the gh kit is what it is, 5 pads, and the format supports 5 lanes so you can chart anything that controller can possibly do, anything beyond that is superfluous