Midi specification for PS songs

[lordhardware]

I'm quite excited to get started charting songs for PhaseShift (what with 5-lane drums and a stable engine)

But i would rather hold off until the engine knows what notes force slides, HO/POs etc.

This is an issue i've had with FoFiX for some time, and it seems the creators of THAT program are more interested in how it looks than in creating a proper method for creating songs.

[asskickulater]

force HO/PO's are already supported aswell as slide notes (though the slider on the guitars arent yet supported)
and FoFix does seem to be more interested in looks then anything else...

btw welcome ^_^

[David]

Sept 4, 2010 17:21:32 GMT lordhardware said:

I'm quite excited to get started charting songs for PhaseShift (what with 5-lane drums and a stable engine)

But i would rather hold off until the engine knows what notes force slides, HO/POs etc.

This is an issue i've had with FoFiX for some time, and it seems the creators of THAT program are more interested in how it looks than in creating a proper method for creating songs.

I agree that the MIDI format is a mess but we are kind of forced into following in FOF footsteps to include backwards compatibility for the masses of songs created for it.
It's funny because even features unsupported by FOF have still been defined by them and incorporated into the major game rips accommodating for FOF limitations.
I’m looking to define my own standard when Rockband Pro songs are ripped as the current format is unworkable for such features.
But for the time being I’ll try and explain how to chart for these features.

5 Lane Drums:
This is the only standard I’ve defined myself as there hasn’t been a single release incorporating it which allowed me the chance to lead the way.

Basically the orange note is one note up from green which is an F note.
Below is the exact note number for each difficulty:

DRUM_EASY_ORANGE (65)
DRUM_MEDIUM_ORANGE (77)
DRUM_HARD_ORANGE (89)
DRUM_EXPERT_ORANGE (101)

Forced HOPOs
This is a little more complex but not too problematic.
Basically if you want to override the auto HOPO system you can do this by forcing individual notes by placing a companion forced note in the following positions.

FORCED ON:
GUITAR_EASY_FORCE_ON (65)
GUITAR_MEDIUM_FORCE_ON (77)
GUITAR_HARD_FORCE_ON (89)
GUITAR_EXPERT_FORCE_ON (101)

FORCED OFF:
GUITAR_EASY_FORCE_OFF (66)
GUITAR_MEDIUM_FORCE_OFF (78)
GUITAR_HARD__FORCE_OFF (90)
GUITAR_EXPERT_FORCE_OFF (102)

The companion note must be of the same duration as the target note and also its velocity should be set to 100 (this is important to not conflict with slider notes).

Open Bass Notes
Open Bass Notes are Simply Forced ON Green Bass Notes. So any Green Bass Note Which has been Forced ON will show as an Open Note.
“What do I do if I want to Force a Green Bass Note if they are all converted to Open Bass Notes?” The Answer is you can’t! (Like I Said this whole standard is a mess!)


Slider Notes:
Slider Notes also use the Forced ON Note but this time the Duration will span the Whole Slider Note Section and not just the individual note. This is the same as charting normal SP sections but we must also insure that the velocity is set to 127 to help prevent conflictions with normal HOPO notes.

I hope that explains how they all work and if you need any more info I’ll try and explain in more detail and maybe post some examples.

Thanks
David

[lordhardware]

thats rediculous...

we need to define notes to span the sections that are HO/PO or slide sections, not note velocity, it becomes increasingly difficult for people who chart using midi editors if we do it that way (and to tell the truth people should ONLY be using midi editors to make mids)

[ryanpanties]

have you considered using more logical midi specifications and designing an import/conversion routine that makes fof midis compatible? Thus, for example, you would still have the issue with open-vs-forced bass notes with fof songs, but it would be fixable (you could now change songs to distinguish between open/forced).

Alternately, perhaps a setttings option for various formats of midis? (RB, GH, FOF, PS)

Just tossing out ideas, because you're right about the fof midi standards turning into a bit of a mess.

Edit: (addressing lordhardware's last line)
I don't think it's logical to assume we can get people all charting in a midi editor, but i think it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to add the "final touches" in a midi editor. I'll very likely continue to use Feedback for basic charting for some time yet, but i'm perfectly capable of pulling that into Reaper/Anvil and adding the necessary tidbits.

[David]

Sept 5, 2010 21:08:14 GMT ryanpanties said:

have you considered using more logical midi specifications and designing an import/conversion routine that makes fof midis compatible? Thus, for example, you would still have the issue with open-vs-forced bass notes with fof songs, but it would be fixable (you could now change songs to distinguish between open/forced).

Alternately, perhaps a setttings option for various formats of midis? (RB, GH, FOF, PS)

Just tossing out ideas, because you're right about the fof midi standards turning into a bit of a mess.

Edit: (addressing lordhardware's last line)
I don't think it's logical to assume we can get people all charting in a midi editor, but i think it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to add the "final touches" in a midi editor. I'll very likely continue to use Feedback for basic charting for some time yet, but i'm perfectly capable of pulling that into Reaper/Anvil and adding the necessary tidbits.

It's hard enough to get people to chart for PS when it's the same format as FOF. If I was to change it so that files for PS don't work with FOF then it's going to put off a lot of people from making songs. I'm just looking to re-write the standard when Rockband Pro comes out as there is no chance of FOF supporting it and as such it can be a separate standard.

Thanks
David

[lordhardware]

No ofcourse its understandable that people will still want to use programs to do the work. But designing the midi specifications around a broken medium (FoF and right now it IS broken) is counter-intuitive and will have us always at the heels of another program.

The attention needs to be focused on PhaseShift's future, not on making sure all Puppetz songs work in it.

[David]

Sept 6, 2010 6:55:45 GMT lordhardware said:

No ofcourse its understandable that people will still want to use programs to do the work. But designing the midi specifications around a broken medium (FoF and right now it IS broken) is counter-intuitive and will have us always at the heels of another program.

The attention needs to be focused on PhaseShift's future, not on making sure all Puppetz songs work in it.

In an ideal world I would just branch off. Infact I'm dying to do so but it's going to take a big incentive to make people chart for another format that don't have many subscribers. I think the big incentive will be RB Pro. However, the new format will also have a new standard for basic charts. As rockband Pro will be backwards compatible for old contorllers/charts, so it will be all inclusive. When there is more detail on the RB Pro system then I'll try and create the format for it. Hopefully enough info surfaces before game is released. Then the standard can be implemented sooner.

David

[lordhardware]

the rockband pro method will be native mids, the note is the note (e=e).

[asskickulater]

slightly offtopic here... but is there anyway you can add support for real guitars when you use the RB pro format? i know its probably a no but im poor and it would be awesome if i could get around buying one of there guitars

[ryanpanties]

David:
True, I wasn't factoring RBPro standards into my thought process on that at all. I'm actually really excited to hear that you're thinking along those lines.

[codemonkey]

You do know that even if another version is released, that you will still have to support the older versions, thus still having the problems with supporting FOFix based songs, a re-write of the Midi Format isn't dependent on you, but dependent on how Harmonix / Activision decides to write the new format. Although I highly doubt that they will change to a different file format for charting songs, there might be a slight possibility of such, at least for the Pro aspect of RB games. If i'm not mistaken, there's 128 midi notes and 128 notes on the Pro guitar. although not all songs will use all 128 midi notes on a single song, this may pose issues for things such as Overdrive, Solo Sections, etc. I by know means trying to debate the fact that we need to set a new format for charting songs. However, Things may change, and you maybe leading the way, if They do decide to change the file format to something different, but at the same time, you still have to support that in which has already been set, as to not upset the other fofix users.

[lordhardware]

hmmm i was brash here.
although it was two years ago haha

A better work around for this would be to set the notes that you would like to use to force HO/PO or for other special game elements (perhaps the notes that are used for camera movements in GH)

and if backwards compatability is an issue add a new song header in the ini file.

I have a back catalogue of about 70 charted songs that I would LOVE to fix and release