hi-hat disco flip based on CC4 value

[Deleted]

Hi,

was hoping it would be somewhat trivial to add this. essentially, i want to do this

Currently I have this for my hi-hat
yellow is mapped to 22,26,42,44 with

<BLUE>46,9,0</BLUE>

right, lets me still get dynamics off the edge and as long as i avoid the bow i register yellow hits. this is cool, mostly works, but isn't as good as it could be.

Could we extend the YAML or whatever to understand ...

<BLUE>46,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE>
<BLUE>26,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE>

Only register as a blue hit if the CC channel 4 is =>100 The full config for the expert+ HH then would be

<YELLOW>22,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>26,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>42,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>46,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>44,9,0</YELLOW>
<BLUE>46,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE>
<BLUE>26,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE>

Thoughts?

[David]

I'm not really understanding this, It has been a while and I was never a fan of disco flip in general but from what I understand isn't disco flip disabled in real drums mode?

If you have an example chart with with an explanation as to what it should be doing for you.

Does anyone else want to weigh in on this as I don't have all the information in my head anymore

Thanks
David

[Deleted]

let's forget disco flip as a term for a second.

all I'm asking for is to allow essentially the last little bit to work.

<BLUE>46,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE> <--- send blue for bow when CC4 is =<100
<BLUE>26,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE> <--- send blue for edge when CC4 is =<100

user can set their preference for where the transition point is.

If we could get just that functionality, Expert+ essentially becomes real drums mode. I'd prefer we have a gigantic library of real drums charts, and certainly encourage more, reality though is that we have a gigantic library of Expert/+ songs where the high hat expression is super limited.

So this stuff is all standard right, and I'll send 'yellow' hits
<YELLOW>22,9,0</YELLOW> <--edge zone 'closed' HH pad
<YELLOW>26,9,0</YELLOW> <--edge zone 'open' HH pad
<YELLOW>42,9,0</YELLOW> <--bow zone 'closed' HH pad
<YELLOW>46,9,0</YELLOW> <--bow zone 'open' HH pad
<YELLOW>44,9,0</YELLOW>

and then when its time for a hi-hat bark I raise my foot off the HH pedal board and now the open bow/edge become blue notes

<BLUE>46,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE> <--- send blue for bow when CC4 is =<100
<BLUE>26,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE> <--- send blue for edge when CC4 is =<100

if you have to make it uniform then that might look like this.

<YELLOW>22,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>26,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>42,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>46,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>44,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<BLUE>46,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE>
<BLUE>26,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE>

logical psuedo code
if CC4 = 0-99
then send only yellow
else if CC4 = 100-127
then send blue


hope that helps.

[David]

I'm still a little confused because currently we support CC#4 for open and closed hi-hat's but these are bound to their corresponding notes as you'd expect.
Why would you want to bind this to blue which is typically a Ride or Crash Cymbal?

Are you talking about Advanced Drums (Not Real Drums) binding Blue Notes As Open Hi-Hats to fake a more expressive chart?

Thanks
David

[Deleted]

Yes that is what I'm talking about, advanced faking expressiveness. I'm suggesting we fake that a bit more.

So let's focus on that - let's say i'm playing a song, normal yellow on the hi-hat then there is a blue hihat bark.

My current midi profile looks like this
<YELLOW>22,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>26,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>42,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>44,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<BLUE>46,9,0:4,9,0</BLUE>

right, so the bow zone on my HH is blue when it is open, everything else is yellow. this allows me to play dynamics on the edge with an open position, sort of. meaning I can play an open HH, get a more open HH sizzle sound, and still send yellow notes.

some songs though require the player to alternate between the bow and the edge to get the correct sound. anything with a shuffle beat will require this so almost every blues song ever written.

outside of full real drums mode, you can't ever play these dynamics properly or you'll send blue notes from the HH open bow note 46.

I just want to add the CC4 into the midi profile so that 0-99 = yellow on the bow and edge and 100-127 = blue for both the bow and edge and have that range be tunable by the individual.

[David]

I'm looking into how I could make this happen in the code because there are loads of situations where this could mess things up. Also, in general I would prefer the chart to reflect the correct notes intended and instead detecting, converting and displaying them as open hi-hats would be my perfered option.

Thanks
David

[Deleted]

yeah all i'm looking for is just better articulation with the Expert/Advanced drum charts that we have a TON of. i'd love if all of them had real drums support but they just don't right.

thanks for having a look - i do think if this type of functionality could work it would be really cool. you know the code though so ... meh thanks I'll wait patiently for the go/no go ;-)

[David]

It might just make more sense to just add a profile option for this.
When enabled if you're playing Advanced Drums it will just make the hi-hat pedal make yellow events turn blue.

Would that work?

It would then apply to other controllers too, not just MIDI.

Thanks
David

[Deleted]

naw cause you really need some range to play with on the pedal where the notes are still yellow.

whats a good example. hmm .. Boston's foreplay. early in the song at the ... i'm not sure what its called but the transition from the intro to

during this intro the durmmer is moving between fully closed and slightly open. from a game standpoint, all these notes should be yellow since none of them are true hihat barks/accents. Starting at about 12 seconds he plays a series of triplets bouncing between what sounds to me like closed bow, closed edge, and then a slightly open edge or bow hit.

again Boston - on more than a feeling - about the 1:16 mark. you hear a series of hihat fills. the first is entirely closed. the second one on the other hand is plaed entirely open and the game's chart for this has the correct open 'blue' at the end however, all but that last note should be yellow.

blink-182 dumpweed - this song bounced between yellow and 1/16th note hihat barks frequently but also between the various open and closed positions. most of these notes should be yellow with only the accent/barks as blue.

aerosmith - walk this way - this whole song should be yellow notes with blue hihat barks littered all over the chorus. during the verse though this would technically be a just barely open hi-hat so notes 46/26 shouldn't send blue on this song except when you rally take your foot off the pedal.

really if we can just get it so that we the users can set our own range for CC4 say 0-99 = always send yellow and 100-127

like this
<YELLOW>46,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<YELLOW>26,9,0:4,9,0</YELLOW>
<BLUE>46,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE>
<BLUE>26,9,0:4,9,100</BLUE>

as long as CC4 registers less than 100 aka foot working the pedal up to about 3/4 open, send yellow. if CC4 sends 100 or more aka foot is either completely off the pedal or the pedal is being worked through the full range, then send blue.

i'm not considering non midi controllers at all. this really is an ask (from my perspective) specific to folks like myself with real eDrums. i doubt this functionality translates to controller type drums as those won't have the full midi range. aren't those mostly binary functions where the pedal is either on or off?

[David]

Can you give me some more detail about how the pedal works. I've never owned one myself and as such all the code has been done through reading the MIDI standard.

I'm looking for a more elegant solution if I can. From what you're saying you'll be having to change the MIDI profile everytime you play a different song to get it to work correctly.

How are the Open, Sizzle and Closed Hi-Hats working right now with Real Drums? Are the ranges correctly assigned?

Right now they are set as follows but if these should be user defined, I can make them an option.

if( EventHolder[x].Value >= 120 )
Board.HiHatPos = HI_HAT_CTRL_CLOSED;
else if( EventHolder[x].Value >= 80 )
Board.HiHatPos = HI_HAT_CTRL_SIZZLE;
else
Board.HiHatPos = HI_HAT_CTRL_OPEN;

The reason why I say this is because it might be easier to just have a song.ini value which defines the cutoff point. That way each song can be defined separately.

Thanks
David

[Deleted]

Can't thank you enough for having a look at this David.

I'm actually on the road and can't go into exhaustive detail right now. I'll try and update with a lot more verbosity when I get home as even the real drum HH is somewhat lacking as I recall. to be fair, i haven't tried a real drums chart in a minute - i mostly play advanced/expert+ charts.

just for the record, your game here is IMO the single best song learning tool for drummers on the planet at the moment. lessons are great, drumeo is great, but having something like this allows me to quickly learn songs I don't know. if we can get this hi-hat functionality improved just a smidge then this game won't even be argueable anymore IMO. it will just be the best song learning tool for edrummers that there is.

so let me put some thought into this, maybe record a video or two. since you sound like you're not a drummer the video may be useful to help me explain.

ultimately, you need to use everything on the HIHAT - bow and edge need to always send yellow through about IMO at least 75% of the CC4 velocity range and only send blue or open (if real drums) in that last 25% of the range.

thanks again i'll update when I'm back home on Saturday.

[Deleted]

ugh, no time. found some videos that may help.



Early in that you can see how one transitions from playing the edge of the hihat with the down stroke, to the bow (middle) of the hihat on the upstroke.



hi-hat barking -

these are the 'blue' notes in all the charts.




and if you have time, Bernard "Pretty" Purdie doing an hour long lesson on the Purdie shuffle.



Really both the hi-hat edge and the hi-hat bow need to closed/yellow when closed, and sizzle/yellow when open - up to a certain point - then flip to the fully open action.

said another way:
in real drums, both midi notes 46 and 26 need to send sizzle up to X% of their range - then send open.
in advanced drums, both midi notes 46 and 26 need to send yellow up to X% of their range - then send blue after that.

hope that makes sense.